VANNOY:

Hello, everyone. Wake. Welcome to today’s webinar talent Strategies, how to Strengthen Recruiting and Retention During The Great Resignation. So if you haven’t heard about the, the, this term, the Great Resignation, you’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about it today clearly as we come out of this pandemic and, and who knows what even coming out of means, right? With all the far false stops and starts. Certainly there are, there are more chapters to, to kind of unfold here, but I, but I do think we need to think about talent management through a, a lens of a new normal, not a return the way to the way things used to be. So today we’re gonna unpack this topic coincidentally today we’re also publishing a new ebook of the same title where we’re trying to give small business owners and executives at mid-size companies some real practical tools to, to be able to, to, to better position themselves, position their employment brand, employ, and, and get the most from their employees.

How to retain employees who are on the bubble and thinking about making a change, how to capitalize on the opportunity in the market where there’s more talent available than there’s ever been before, and how to, how to bring them into the fold and make them productive and make them part of the, the, the family and, and, and build a strong culture. So, we’re gonna unpack it all today and my guest is Eyal Goldstein, chief Revenue Officer, president of Asure Eyal. Really looking forward to unpacking this ebook with you today. Welcome.

GOLDSTEIN:

Thank you, Mike, and, and really excited to be a part of this. Thank you.

VANNOY:

So, for those of you who wanna, wanna follow along, we’re not gonna go word for word. You can see you got some, some screenshot here of all the different pages of this, of this ebook. It, it’s thoughtfully laid out for you. You can download it yourself. Go to assure software.com/guide to the new normal during great resignation in, in, and, and use this as a guide. We’re gonna provide some color commentary. We’re gonna provide kind of the backstory in a specifically, you know, from, from his seat, you know, managing many companies over the years in, in really many small businesses, if you will in supporting small businesses at, at ashore. So, I think brings a unique vantage point. So hop on the website, download the ebook, and, and follow along. So, let, let’s just maybe back up for a second.

 A, when I, when I think about, let’s, let’s just define what this thing is called, the Great Resignation. I think, you know, it’s in the news, but not everybody perhaps has heard of it. And as I was, as I was, you know, preparing for our conversation today, you know the unemployment rate today is something like 4.7% literally in 19. So the, and we’ve heard this, this phrase, the war on talent. Well, the war on talent, that, that phrase was coined by a guy named Steve Hankin. He was a, a principal over at Mackenzie all the way back in 1997. And so I just Googled it in 1997. The unemployment rate was 4.7% <laugh>. Now, the economy has had all kinds of ups and downs. There’s been wars, there’s been recessions, there’s been pandemics since 1997. But here we are, an unemployment rate of 4.7%. Employers are struggling to, to, to find and bring on talent. And all of a sudden we, we, we face a point where retaining employees is harder than ever. Also, can, can you just kinda you know, put your spin on what, what is this thing that you know is being called the Great Resignation?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, no, <laugh>. And I think it’s interesting. I think, I think to, to put it very, very simply three out of every four of your employees are considering leaving and considering leaving their current role. And if you think about that number, it is just such a staggering data point to think that 75% of your workforce or more in certain cases are, are actually considering leaving their current job in and looking for a, for another role outside their current organization. And, and the great resignation has, has really just begun. And, and in layman’s terms, what’s happening is folks are quitting and resigning at record numbers and at a record pace. And, and we’ve only begun, it’s, you know, the beginning of the great resignation was was really the summer of resignation where, where we started to come out of Covid and, and unemployment really started coming down dramatically. But at the same time turnover in, in involuntary turnover started shooting through the roof. That was the summer of resignations. Now we’ve be, we’ve got into the great resignation because we’re three, four months into this thing, and, and it continues and it’s continuing to accelerate. And the percentage of small businesses, big businesses, current employee base is looking for work outside of their current role. And, and, and ultimately, that’s what the great resignation is.

VANNOY:

Yeah. You know what I, I, I think there are so many people can just relate to different aspects. It’s Right, right. So going through this pandemic, there is obviously some companies, some industries who have been hit really hard. There are, there are losers, there are winners, right? If you’re, if you’re in an industry, if you’re in a restaurant business, man crushed you. If you’re in the video teleconferencing business, boy, this has been nothing but a in, in a perverse way, a a boom for you, right? And so there’s winners and losers in business but there’s also, you know, we’re, we’re all in, in different spots personally, right? Whether you had have additional flexibility to pick kids up and drop ’em off for school, right? Or, or whether your bus you, you could or couldn’t even physically go to work or depending on what state and what city, what county you lived in different levels of restrictions.

So all employees truly a hundred percent of employees have been impacted. And even if they’re not like, burnt out and stressed out in their daily job, it’s been a time of reflection, right? So, whether I, I, I, I suspect those companies who are, have had a really grind to, to just survive through this, through this era. They, they probably have a good sense and finger on the pulse of their employees. But what about, what about employers who things maybe are doing okay in how do we help them not get blindsided by this? It, and what are the, what are some of the warning signs that they should be looking for that maybe some of their employees that they think are happy are actually in the market and they’re looking?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah. And, and, and I would say two things really, and it’s a really good point, is, is so, so the companies that have, that have done well and, and, and think about it, right? Why did they do well? Well, they, they evolved and adapted really quick. They were able to provide technology to their workforce a lot of times in order to do their jobs from home, to do it remotely. Well, what happened as a byproduct of that is folks started working nights much more. They were working weekends much more. They were burning the midnight oil much more. And, and what’s happened there now is you’ve got folks that might have had a little bit more of a structure. Maybe were even working 40, 50 hours instead of 60 hours a week now in, in, in a, in a non-traditional schedule, and that’s causing burnout.

And so, yes, we did great in quickly adapting in, in, in working remotely and continuing to do business in some companies had some of their best growth with that transition. But ultimately what’s happened is the impact has been on the employee and the employee burnout is a big part of this thing. So, I, I, I, you know, having success during a covid and in a remote workforce environment is fantastic. But having the pulse on your employees that maybe you haven’t seen in a year, year and a half, or, you know, coming up on two years in a few months that is, I, I, I think the big key in really understanding where your employee’s mental state is after this transition and, and how their work life balance has changed with the transition.

VANNOY:

Last thing I wanna talk about on this a and then we’ll kind of go on to some of the, the tactical things that, that companies can do and be on the lookout for. What, what would you say to small business owners, mid-size companies who think, okay, we understand we’re coming out of a pandemic. People are stressed, their lives have been turned on, on their head. You know, maybe we froze pay for a year. So there was, there weren’t raises in the last 18 months. And so there’s some sweet offers out there. We’re just gonna, we’re just gonna take these things on one at a time. We’re gonna ride out this storm. What, what the, the title of the ebook, the title of today’s webinar is the New Normal. How, how much, how much do you give credit here for this great resignation of being an event that companies need this managed through versus a reset of the marketplace in, in and how, you know, in, in some ways, I think, like, personally, I for sure think there’s a new normal, but there’s also some aspects of this. Like, not everybody continue can continually just offer more pay to everybody. They, they’re gonna run outta money right there, there has to be a leveling off of, of some of these components. What, what do you think about this as an event versus new normal?

GOLDSTEIN:

It’s a combination of, of a new normal, because what, what employees are demanding a difference in the work environment and and flexibility of their work schedule? Higher pay is, is a fact. Inflation’s happening. There’s, there’s millions of job openings. Those, those companies that are leaning in and being proactive during this time of change, are able to recruit talent from other organizations be because they changed some of their some, some of the requests that they have on their employees. I would say companies have to lean in, just like organizations. Were extremely resilient during C O V I D and leaned in to a remote work environment and being able to, to work in, in, in, and put technology in place that allowed their employees to continue to be productive during covid. The same thing, organizations or the best organizations have to lean in right now and, and have to be proactive and have to have much more frequent one-on-ones with their employees to really understand where folks’ heads are at and to really understand what’s important to them during this time.

VANNOY:

You know, something, something you said just jumped out to me that employees demand these things. Kind of go back to my opening comments that with unemployment of 4.7%. So one, one thing I think is for sure, I mean, we hop on our website, you can read blog posts on this for the last three, four or five years now. The combination of GDP growth and birth rates, retirement rates of baby boomers that there’s been this pending labor crisis forever. And, and, you know, some, some pandemics and recessions have kind of masked that over the last, you know, couple decades here at different times. But there is certainly a new normal about employment levels, right? And whether, whether the, I, I think to think about employee demanding, it doesn’t look like an employee’s pounding their fist on the desk saying, I require this from you.

It’s simply they have choices, <laugh>, right? They, with 4.7% unemployment, they can go wherever the hell they want, right? Yeah. So what, what, what, before I move on, what’s your, what’s your guidance on, on employers, whether they are doing really well right now or really struggling coming out of the pandemic? What, what, what are they, what should be they be on the lookout for with their own employees who they might think are actually happy, but maybe not realizing those employees are getting, you know, two, three emails a week from recruiters with, with offers Yes. That are, that are eye popping.

GOLDSTEIN:

Yep. Yep. Yeah. So, so at, at a high level, you gotta understand what’s motivating your employees, right? So, so what is the motivation that they have day to day? And, and that gets into that one-on-one interaction to, to truly define that and understand that and not guess or assume. The second thing is you get more tactical on how to spot some of these things, is what we’ve seen is, you know, number one, you might see increased activity on LinkedIn, right? And so you, you, you, I’ve, it’s, it’s always been a predictor, at least for me, when, when I see that increased activity, and maybe they’re updating skills and job experience but, but ultimately increased activity, there is a sign attendance related issues. Are people maxing out their PTOs. So someone that may, might have taken their PTOs once or twice a year during summer or the holidays are, are they taking it every other week, Thursday, Fridays, right?

And really tapping out all their PTOs, decreased engagement. And, and we’ll talk a little bit about engagement and how important it is. It’s, it’s great to have, you know, folks in the role and butts in seat, but ultimately, if there’s not the right engagement level, an organization is not gonna get the productivity that they need out of their employees. And then, you know, always think about the byproduct of if somebody is, is, you know, been passed up for a raise or a promotion you know, not giving merit raises for a year or two, I would put every employee on notice at that point and make sure you’re having those conversations. You know, having that merit or increase every year and, and it going away. Don’t think it doesn’t impact your employees if they’re not coming to you and talking to you about it. So, so again, I think understanding the motivation and then looking at some really important tactical shifts in an employee’s behavior.

VANNOY:

Yeah. All right. Very good. Let, let’s jump to, I mean, this, this is the topic I think we’ve been talking about forever, right? There’s no shortage of information, but I, but I, I still think the market as, as in the employers are still trailing the, the needs and desires of the employees, right? There, and I think we’re just still early days that people just aren’t figuring this out. Some, some companies better than others, but as, as an entire economy, I, I think we got a, we have a lot to learn here yet. What I, I wanna kind of break down these four topics that we, we tee up in, in the ebook, facilitating work-life balance workplace flexibility versus scheduling flexibility. So place versus time. And, and, and then what does that mean for, for policy? How, how, how does how does an employer set policy what’s your guidance for EMP employers around this topic of flexibility for both workplace and schedule?

GOLDSTEIN:

I, I mean, it’s, it’s been a topic for, for quite some time now. It, it, it, it’s not new. I think, you know, the pandemic obviously accelerated it in, in a very big way. But, but again, it’s, it’s leaning into understanding what does a work-life balance mean for folks? And, and, and, you know, that, does it mean being able to have the ability to pick up children from school, drop off children from school? Are are they taking care of parents at home? There, there’s, there’s just really understanding the nuances of an employee’s need for a work-life balance, I think would get you the right data points to make decisions around what flexibility means to, to that employee.

VANNOY:

One of the, I think about with work-life balance, and you know what I’m, I’ll commit right here. We’re gonna, we’re gonna put together a, a, a a, a white paper or something, or at least a, a, a blog post, some article on this, this concept of work-life balance. I, I almost think, I almost think that this is approaching an antiquated topic. And, and I don’t, and I don’t wanna suggest that people need to work 24 7, cuz that that’s not healthy, obviously. Nor is it productive. There’s diminishing returns. But I, I feel like, you know, we got these, these computers in our back pockets that we’re, we’re, it’s like the umbilical cord to work. I think rather than just being of this balance of, okay, this is the part of my life, I’m is my personal life, and this is the part of my life that’s my work life.

It’s how do we have integrated lives that, that, that don’t necessarily tie to punching a clock because I’m kind of personal all the time and I’m kind of work all the time. And, and how do we pull that off in an integrated way? What, what, what, what’s your guidance there? I mean, you, you and I, we, we we’re, we’re calling, we’re messaging you know, <laugh> all kinds of stupid hours, right? But, you know, also, I know that, you know, when family comes, you do family stuff when you gotta do that too. So the, it almost feels like the word balance is kind of becoming the wrong word.

GOLDSTEIN:

It it is. And, and, and it’s probably really, really understanding what a work schedule needs to look like specifically for employees and employee set or, or an employee, right? And, and, and as you again, have that dialogue you know, may maybe you are moving away from, you know, the, the, the eight to five or minute to minute understanding or, or, or visibility into what an employee is doing if they’re getting the job done well, does it really matter when they’re working? Right? And, and, and that’s a paradigm shift for a lot of folks, right? It, it, it, it puts a lot more trust into the employer employee relationship. And, and I think that’s where organizations are having a tough time really adapting and evolving some organizations. And so, yes, you could talk about flexible scheduling all you want, but, but ultimately, you know, does, does, does the flexible schedule need to incorporate, you know, more balance where, where employees with younger kids or with kids in school have the ability to attend school functions have the ability for volunteering, you know, making time for different family functions, right? It, it’s okay, right? It’s okay if you have a work schedule, but, but flexibility is going to mean really getting into the minutiae in the details of setting the right expectations with employees, right? So, so they don’t feel bad if they aren’t responding to texts or emails past eight o’clock. And, and frankly, should there be rules against sending texts or emails past a certain time as well? So, so employees aren’t or don’t feel obligated to, to respond and work during that time.

VANNOY:

You know, El so a bunch of people listening to, to our conversation today, you know, some are, you know, single location brick and mortar. This whole concept of virtual is like a non-starter. Others are either some type of technology or business service where, you know, they’ve been virtual all along, or it’s multi-location that you have a, you’re in a unique position that you have, you know, whether it’s salespeople who are hired to be a hundred percent virtual or payroll operations folks who are literally in a facility pulling check stock off of a printer and loading them into to, to trucks, to, to send people their, their, their paychecks, right? So how should employers be thinking about, you know, time and place when it comes to setting policy? Cause, cause I think one of the mistakes people have made is they’ve, it’s like this all or nothing of flexibility. Like either you’re flexible or you’re not, but not all jobs are lend themselves, whether you’re a big company or small company. Not every job is the same. And so how do you manage that from an HR policies perspective?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, I think, I think you gotta be, it’s gotta be employee by employee too. So, so there’s nothing that says that an on-premise employee can have that same flexibility, right? And, and maybe a group of employees sure. That that need to be in an office for that specific function to really work may, maybe there are some ground rules around that. But, but ultimately, again, you, you gotta get down to an employee level and be able to understand what, what an employee needs. The other piece is, is there technology that you could provide to maybe shift some of this where it has to be on premise? Technology has come such a long way where now you can give some of those on-premise employees the ability to work from home and, and, and then from the remote employees that, that traditionally have been remote, it’s how do you continue to keep them productive?

And, and, and, and again, understand their need for, for scheduling flexibility as well. We’ve always assumed, hey, they’re behind a computer, eight to five, eight to six, nine to five, whatever those hours are. But ultimately, do you need to make sure that you understand the work schedule for a remote employee as long as they’re getting their job done and the productivity levels are hit that you’re requiring from that role. So I, again, I think you gotta manage it at an employee level but also look at how you morph some of the roles to give more flexibility if, if, if it does require folks to be on site.

VANNOY:

Yeah, I think that’s good advice. Okay. Let’s move to the next topic. Ar around mental health. So I, I, there’s a phrase that you hear a lot, and I, I think makes a lot of sense. Mental health is health, right? I, I, I think as a society, we’re doing a good job kind of breaking away from the negative stigma that comes along with mental health. And, and as, as with many things, the pandemic has been an accelerator of that trend there. There’s three buckets that I want to talk here. One is let’s just talk about just the practicality of an increased need for mental health. And maybe that just becomes part of people’s health plans as we, as we enter this new phase of a post pandemic or, you know covid world. Number two is just burnout in general in this 4.7% unemployment world.

And then number three you know, what’s interesting is we’re doing the research for the C book. This, this is disproportionately hitting women harder than it is men just because of the other responsibilities that most women have on their plate compared to men. And we’re not picking any political topics or this is not a, not a study and gender issues, but statistically it’s just a fact that this is hitting women harder than it is men. So, so let’s, let’s start with a first one coming, coming out of the pandemic. What, what’s your guidance for small and mid-sized companies ale on how to think about mental health as just being health, and how do, how do they incorporate the benefit plans in flexibility working with employees?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a really, really important important piece. I think first thing is, is mental health is really broad. So, so understanding, well, okay, well, what, what does that mean? And, and it is ultimately that, it’s how stress, anxiety, depression. So I, I think everybody understands what the components are of mental health. Or maybe they don’t, but, but, but understanding that is, is really important, right? Of, okay, these are the factors that, that comprise mental health. How do I give my employee employees more in order to deal with it? Understanding burnout, right? I think burnout causes a lot of or, or, or causes some of the mental health issues that folks are having. In, in, in, I, what, what, I think I read something, 80, 90% of, of employees in the United States experienced some sort of burnout in the last year.

That, that’s a huge number, right? I mean, nine out of 10 employees. So, so really understanding are your employees at a burnout at a burnout level, and in, in having to deal with that. Y you know, there has been a lot of programs implemented from our benefits providers and with our insurance coverage around mental health and, and whether that is remote access to therapists and folks to talk to or it’s increased reimbursement to and in time off for mental health wellness, yoga gyms. There’s been a lot, I’ve seen a lot of activity in, in, in a lot of change on the benefits side of the business that, that we provide our employees specifically that target mental health.

VANNOY:

Yeah. You know, I’m just reading a, a set a couple stats out of the ebook for those following along. People who feel burned out are 63% more likely to call in sick. They’re 23% more likely to visit the er. And they’re 2.6 times, almost three times more likely to be actively seeking a different job. So the, the impact on us is just too huge. So it, it’s one thing to just acknowledge, Hey, we’re coming through tough times and, and acknowledge that you, you got some people burned out, but this is, this is huge for them personally, but this is really gonna mess up your business if you don’t, if you, if you can’t figure out how to address it, right? Yeah, let’s, there, there’s this, a last topic here around women. And again, we, we, we never take any political positions.

We’re not trying to get into some hot gender issue topics here, but just the, the stats are clear, and this is straight from the Gallup poll. 62% of women employees female employees experience a lot of daily stress compared to 52% with men. I, I think this kind of goes back to our previous topic around flexibility is so many traditional roles, whether you love it or hate it so many traditional roles, the, there, there’s more ex, there’s higher expectations around childcare and caregiver and whatnot. What, what, what’s your guidance for employers to think through that?

GOLDSTEIN:

It, it, it’s, it’s a huge piece and, and it’s a biggest piece I think of flexibility, is understanding caregivers and, and the flexibility that caregivers need in, in today’s environment. And, and, and just for example, you know, there, there’s been some starts and stops around schools reopening. There’s been starts and stops around if, if, if there is a covid occurrence in a school and folks need to quarantine if they’ve been in that class. Children need to quarantine for 14 days. Well, if, if, if, if, you know, someone has to take care of of those children, right? And, and I think understanding caregivers is probably at the top of the list as it relates to not only the empathy around the day-to-day and, and, and what it takes, but, but ultimately, what can we do to help facilitate that life, right? And, and in that requirement that they have in their lives. And, and that scheduling flexibility is, is top of the list firm. And, and it’s probably more important than pay is these days. And, and that’s a big deal. And, and folks always used to think, well, we’ll just, we’ll just pay ’em a little bit more. Well, ultimately, e even a little bit more pay is, is not going to help solve the flexibility aspect for a caregiver. And, and that’s, you know, that’s why that piece is, I think, top of the list.

VANNOY:

Yeah, no, no question. All right, let’s move on to skills. So as, as companies inevitably turn some staff over, and as we build up new protocols, new tech stacks, new processes for for managing in a more flexible, virtual empathetic world it it, what emerges is the need for new skills. So, so in this, you know, we talk about this gig economy that’s, that’s grown so much. How do you, how do you plug people in and make them productive when they may not have the skills and kind of all this, how do I say it? Maybe like a tribal, tribal knowledge that happens from conversations at the, the water cooler in a brick and mortar world.

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, it’s skills is a big piece. So, so look, I, I, I’d start with looking to promote from within to, right. I, I think we, we, we’ve had this predisposed idea of folks having to, you know, have done the job before and having to go to the outside to promote, and they haven’t been in the role long enough. I, i, all those things. You gotta break down those walls and those preconceived notions look to promote from within. There is a lot today around outsourcing current roles in, in, there’s organizations that have employees that, that are looking for working on some sort of contractual basis. You know, rethink the job description and, and the profile of an employee that you’re hiring. As you start to rethink those profiles, can you hire contingent talent, right? For a period of time? I, is there firms out there that have those type of profiles that you can hire to work on some sort of short term or a contractual basis you know, really look at your employee base and understand in, in, in, in, and break down the, wow, they’ve only been here for three months.

Well, if they’re really good, promote them and get them to the next role. It’s probably gonna help you retain those folks in the short term or longer term. And, and then rotate employees too. I really like something I read in the ebook around rotating employees with some of those needed skills, even if it’s on a short term basis, that can really help folks expand, you know, their domain knowledge of the business and, and, and expand their expertise in, in a broader way within the organization.

VANNOY:

Yeah. You know what I, I think maybe our, our best guidance we can give here is with, when, when you’re struggling to small, medium sized companies, when you’re struggling to, to fill spots, you, you kind of need an all of the above strategy, right? It can’t be, oh, we’re just gonna promote from the, then we’re just gonna cross train. We’re just gonna outsource jobs. It really is all of the above. And, and I think that aligns perfectly just to the, to the shift of what employees also want. I mean, I had a fascinating ca Uber ride yesterday to my hotel. This guy you know, Dr. Drives his Uber about a third of the time, two thirds of the time. He is a cryptocurrency trader. And I don’t think he was full of crap cuz he <laugh> the stories he was telling.

It was absolutely fascinating, right? And, and that’s the, that’s the life he has chosen for himself. And he doesn’t want to punch the clock for anybody super smart. He decides to, to augment his, his time driving a car. And other employees in all facets want the same thing, whether you’re a, a, a have a, a full-time job, but then weekends you do have a side hustle or your days are filled serving two or three or four or five or 10 bookkeeping clients cuz your QuickBooks advisor, right? It, it really is how do you pull all these strategies together to, to fill in the gaps. Any, anything you’d wanna wrap on for the skills gap for small midsize companies before we move on to engagement now?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, I, I, I think, I think like you, just to reiterate, you know, it’s a multifaceted approach. There is, there is no silver bullet, but but also think outside the box, break down some of the preconceived notions of, you know, the traditional workforce that, that we all grew up with the last four years.

VANNOY:

Yeah. Very good. All right. Now this is, I think, I know it’s your favorite, it’s my favorite. When you’re going through tough times, and I think about Peter Drucker, what culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? When, when employees are going through tough times and they feel burned out and they have the stress and all the things we’ve been talking about, pandemic induced or accelerated I think there’s nothing more important than than culture right? In, in, in, in building an employer brand. And, and you know, we talk about the bullet, the final bullet there of the employee importance of purpose. Why is everyone there, right? What, what are they really working for? Is it, is it really just the paycheck? Because boy, that’s a dangerous, that’s, that’s some thin I used to be playing on. What, what, what’s your, what’s your advice to, to our listeners today around driving engagement and what impact can that really have on the, on this whole war for talent?

GOLDSTEIN:

It, it, it is, it is by far the biggest piece of in this day and age, attracting, retaining talent. And, and I would say if there’s one mantra or something to build around and, and there’s multiple components to it, it’s, it’s creating a purpose driven organization and in, in, and really defining what is that purpose and, and meaning what, why do we do what we do every single day? And why should an employee care about what we do and why we do it every single day? To me, you build a a purpose-driven organization then the, the other pillars fall in place, right? The, the culture around that pillar starts to really come together and, and you gotta focus on culture more than ever. And, and like you mentioned Mike, I think the employer brand, what does your brand mean externally, but what does it mean internally for folks, right? What, what does it stand for?

VANNOY:

Yeah. You know what when I, when I think about, I, I think I can envision somebody on one side of the ledger working 80 hours a week, super stressed out and they just can’t take it anymore. And they are extremely vulnerable to that unsolicited email that comes from a recruiter, right? And I can envision somebody on the other side of the ledger, they’re working 90 hours a week that’s all they do is work, but they work say it SpaceX, and they believe that, that they believe in the mission that they wanna be part of this once in a, in, in, in a forever kind of a moment of trying to put humans on Mars, right? And so whether you think that’s batty or whether you think that’s super cool, there are companies that their employees are gonna walk across hot coals and through brick walls.

And it’s not about burnout. You still have to have to manage that. I’m not, not suggesting we find ways to trick employees into working more hours, cuz their bullshit meter is really good and they’re gonna see through your games really fast, you know, it, it simply won’t work. But it, when you have a purpose in a mission that people understand and buy into, I mean, you still have to address the, the realities of a modern world for flexibility and mental health in, in, in tech stacks. But I mean, there’s just, there’s just nothing, nothing overcompensates for all of those issues more than having a mission that people believe in. Anything else you want to add on this one before we kinda wrap on tech stack?

GOLDSTEIN:

You know, empathy and trust, we talk about it building trust and, and showing empathy, but, but I think that’s, you know, the best o organizations and employers have shown that all along. It might need to be show it more or, or it might need to be more front page these days, but, but I think that’s probably the only other piece I would add there.

VANNOY:

Yeah, so you, you’ve mentioned it several times talking about tech. And, and I don’t wanna make this some just big infomercial for as assure though clearly there are, there are payroll, hr, human capital management components to a tech stack that facilitates this kinda work. What, what’s your guidance to small midsize companies around, you know, how how do they either get to the, start going to the cloud, get fully in the cloud, what are the, what are the tech stacks that facilitate this kind of work and then help build this employer brand?

GOLDSTEIN:

Y y you know, ultimately employees if, if it was a great statue, if, if, you know, if, if they feel that they could be productive from everywhere or anywhere they also have plans to stay with that current employer. So if, if an employee feels they can be successful working from home, working from office and that flexibility, you have a much better chance to retain them and attract new employees there. Ultimately that productivity comes with, you know, I would say a handful of tools, right? And, and, and, and there’s messaging tools you know, teams and, and Google Workspace. We’ve all heard of Zoom, or hopefully we’ve all heard of Zoom by now, or, or teams, Microsoft teams as well you know, document sharing in, in document management, it’s been out there for quite some time, but now it’s more important than ever. And, and then it relates to the employees specifically. How do you pay your employees? How do they request time off? How do they view their paychecks? How do they go through open enrollment? How do they submit their time? You know, those today are table stakes I call in, in terms of cloud-based cloud-based solutions.

VANNOY:

Yeah. Maybe the last thing, and this, and this seems kinda obvious, right? You, you, if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna do all the things we just got done talking about, you’ve gotta have tech that allows employees to do this remotely, but also in a way that allows you to actually, you know, be a grownup manager. It’s not like it’s a, it’s a handing someone a laptop and a pad in the back and report back to me at the end of the week. You, you still have to lit, literally work together, right? So you, you, you need those, those collaborative tools. Talk to me about employer brand. So I, I come back to this 4.7% unemployment rate where talent has more choices than they’ve ever had. The best talent will go not always just to the most money, but what does the, what does, how does tech stack fit into recruiting talent?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah, it’s really good. So, so, so employees want one, one of the biggest questions that I get in interviews today is, well, what sort of tools are you providing your employees? What are some of the specific tech stack software piece that, that you are giving your employees in order to be productive? So being specific and understanding whe whether it’s on the sales side, the sales stack, on the operations side, the operations stack having all those and, and leveraging those and being able to talk through the tools that you are providing your employees and candidates that you’re recruiting, I think is, is really important.

VANNOY:

Yeah, you know what? I I, so I have a friend who’s a former employee here at here to shore. And, and, and, you know, God bless this person, went to go make some more a bunch of money, got a, got a great promotion financially <laugh>, and part of the onboarding this person was sending these screenshots of like, oh my gosh, look at these paper forms I have to fill out. Look at this, look at that is like, the whole onboarding experience itself was so distasteful that it, that it absolutely had an impact on this person’s perception of the company. And, you know, you know, making good money, good career advancement, happy for about all those things, but it’s, but it’s crazy. We sometimes, I, I think especially in the, in this payroll HR world for the last 20 years, we focus so much on how do we save the payroll and HR department’s time in, in automating their processes, saving them time. We haven’t thought enough about the employee experience, right? Employees don’t wanna fill out forms, right? Employees don’t wanna have to print your pdf, sign it, scan it, and yeah, send you an attachment back, right? They, they have, they have expectations of modern tech that works the way they’re used to working on their phone when they do their banking, right? Right. When, when they pay, how they pay their bills, how they pay their babysitter with Venmo, how they order food. But DoorDash, they want, they will expect to work with their employer the same way.

Okay?

GOLDSTEIN:

Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s the, the shifting, you know, the tech, the tech stack to more consumer based, similar to their consumer based tech technology, right? That’s their expectations. How are they banking? How are they shopping? How are they paying for things? Those are their expectations on the work side of it.

VANNOY:

Yeah. Very good. Alright, so a I I I I thank you for joining today. I always enjoy our conversations. If you haven’t done it yet I encourage everyone to hop on the website@suresoftware.com slash guide to new normal during great resignation and, and, and get the tools, all these different talent strategies to, to retain the folks that you have. And I promise there’s probably more of’em that are looking than you realize. Even some that you might think are your most loyal, long-term employees. They’re getting. And it’s, and it’s not cuz they’re necessarily even looking, but they’re being approached and recruited stealth fully that you just don’t know about. And so you, you gotta get ahead of as best you can. And then how do you, at the same time better onboard, better train and build a culture a brand an employer brand to, to get the very most outta your people. Not in an exploitive way, but getting them onboard with your mission so you’re all accomplishing the same goals. Ail, any, any closing thoughts you’d wanna share with everybody?

GOLDSTEIN:

I, I, I, I think look le lean in. I, I really enjoyed the conversation and the content, Mike, and, and I think for employers out there, you know, be proactive. Create a purpose, purpose driven or organization communicate over communicate. Don’t, don’t assume anything in this day and age with your employees. What’s worked in the past doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gonna work now and in the future. And, and, and communicate and over communicate so you’re not assuming that folks are okay with status quo.

VANNOY:

All right. Enjoyed it man. Thanks for joining me today. And for everyone else, thanks for joining as well until next week in our next webinar. Thanks for your time and if you need any help this is what we do. We help more than 80,000 small and mid-sized companies get the very most from their people in increasingly helping them develop these virtual, flexible work strategies by putting the data in the tools in their employees hands not just to automate processes for owners and payroll managers and office managers but really to, to engage their employees in a virtual, flexible way. So if we can help, we’d love to talk to you about it. Otherwise, until next week, have a great day, everybody.